Applications
Accueil
Inscription
Connexion
FULL KITE   |   ESSAIS - TESTS   |   VOYAGES   |   VENTE DE GARAGE   |   LIENS UTILES
Imprimer   |   Inscription   |   Connexion
 

FULL KITE   >>   Cherche Kite Vent entre 12 et 15 knt 2017 5h

Cherche Kite Vent entre 12 et 15 knt 2017 5h

Messagepar marshone » Mer 20 Sep 2017 23:45

Annonce: #1385

Catégorie: Kite - Autre
Marque: Autre
Modèle: Vent entre 12 et 15 knt
Année: 2017

Taille: 5h
Condition: Excellent

Description:
Bonjour,

Je serais intéressé à acheter 5h de vent entre 12 et 15knt dans la région de montréal pour faire une longue session d'hydrofoil Cela me permettrait de faire de longue distances et également pratiquer mes virements de bord.

Merci,

Prix: 100 $CDN

Courriel:

SVP contactez-moi par message privé

Marshone

core GTS4 LW 15m, XR5 10m, XR5 8m
alpinefoil access 5.0v2, vr6
airush Sector 60 V1.5

Perdu: alpinefoil access 5.0, rx-v5
Avatar de l’utilisateur
marshone
 
Messages: 590
Inscrit le: Mar 26 Juil 2011 23:37
Localisation: Pas trop loin d'Oka

Re: Cherche Kite Vent entre 12 et 15 knt 2017 5h

Messagepar xulpix » Jeu 21 Sep 2017 07:03

Cher Marsouin Axial,
Tu peux, à force de concentration, d'estime de soi, de matrise parfaite tel Mr Miagi, trouver du vent ou le reste des kiteux n'en voient pas...

Je m'explique:

Pour y arriver, tu devras plier l'echine et consacrer une grosse partie de ton budget, de tes airlooses et surtout de tes peurs à une seule chose: l'apprentissage du caisson en eau douce!

Évidemment tu devras être correctement équipé: palmes, radio hf, sifflet et ne pas avoir peur de revenir à la nage...

Après avoir suivi ces instructions ce ne sera pas 5h que tu chercheras mais bien à convertir des fidèles qu'un caisson en vent léger est la SEULE solution.

Pas tanné de rester au bord et de voir les amis avoir du plaisir dès 5-6 noeuds... arrête de gémir et achète-toi un caisson! Combien de journée tu as manqué de 8noeuds???

Xulpix au repos...

Voici un exemple qui pourrait t'intéresser:

https://www.facebook.com/colin.noel.5/posts/10156058503140101
Team rider KiteXpress
F-One Diablo V1 11m
Little Cloud Pélican 13m 2017 neuf ( à vendre, avec ou sans barre, faite-moi une offre!)
Flysurfer Sonic2 15m

Intérêt: Vitesse pure :)
Avatar de l’utilisateur
xulpix
 
Messages: 1062
Inscrit le: Jeu 09 Juin 2011 19:45

Re: Cherche Kite Vent entre 12 et 15 knt 2017 5h

Messagepar marshone » Jeu 21 Sep 2017 07:40

Bonjour xulpix,

Alors si j'ai bien compris ton raisonnement, hier, avec un caisson j'aurais ridé 5h? Permet moi d'en douter. C'étais des conditions pour le Yoda du LW et ce pour un maximum de 30-45min.

Je ne raconterai pas la session d'hier en détail puisque mon matériel est resté sur la plage pendant que j'étais justement à l'eau pour aider le Yoda du LW et par le fait même un certain pilote de sonic2 18m à décoller.

À mon poids je ne crois pas que le matériel aurait fait une différence hier! c'est pour cette raison que j'implore éole .

Pour les caissons je promets d'en faire cette hiver mais loin l'idée de me convertir dans un avenir rapproché. Comme tu le sais les mauvaises expériences restent longtemps gravé dans notre mémoire
Marshone

core GTS4 LW 15m, XR5 10m, XR5 8m
alpinefoil access 5.0v2, vr6
airush Sector 60 V1.5

Perdu: alpinefoil access 5.0, rx-v5
Avatar de l’utilisateur
marshone
 
Messages: 590
Inscrit le: Mar 26 Juil 2011 23:37
Localisation: Pas trop loin d'Oka

Re: Cherche Kite Vent entre 12 et 15 knt 2017 5h

Messagepar Denis » Jeu 21 Sep 2017 08:38

SVP bien lire ceci avant de te laisser corrompre par la force maléfique des mangeux de guénille

Image

PMU sur KITEFORUM.COM a écrit:Please don't even consider buying "foil" kites, they are hopeless. Inflatables are vastly superior to ram airs. I've summarised the reasons for the superiority of inflatables:

1: LIFT TO DRAG RATIO (L/D)
- Rams have a HUGE drag ("D") coefficient compared to inflatables, making them more inefficient. This is reflected in their poorer lift and inability to fly as close to the window's edge as inflatables. Large rams can pull steadily enough, but lack the aerodynamic finesse of good quality inflatables.

2: INERTIA
- Because large ram airs contain a much larger mass of air compared to inflatables within their pockets, inertia is HUGE. Large ram air kites contain OVER 11kg of air in their cells vs 2-3 kg for inflatables. It is very difficult to move this mass of air across the sky. This causes a multitude of problems including poor lift, slow turning, slow sining, and difficulty kitelooping. Excessive inertia also means that ram air kites to have a much narrower "sweet spot" for unhooking, which is one of the reasons ram air kites are poor choices for wakestyle riding.

3: RIGIDITY, STABILITY, & FOIL SHAPE
- Semi-rigidity improves consistency, stability, turning, and handling. It means inflatables are able to withstand gusty conditions better than ram airs. Ram airs often fold, collapse, and twist in gusty conditions. Kite makers are always looking for ways to make kites more internally rigid, eg by joining the struts firmly to the leading edge, adding fifth lines, and bridles.
- For stability problems in ram airs stemming from lack of internal rigidity, see: http://www.foilzone.com/phpBB2/viewtopi ... sc&start=0
- Inflatables have a consistent foil shape because they are semi rigid. Rams deform and change their foil shape which causes an inconsistent aerodynamic profile.

4: TURNING
- Far from being a hindrance, the tips of inflatable act as rudders, enabling faster, more controlled turns.
- When in the air, the semi rigid tips of inflatables create a "sled effect" whereby the kite sits stably and predictably above you. This effect is noticeably less in bow kites and ram airs.
- Rigidity facilitates turning. Bar input TWISTS the WHOLE kite, causing a rudder effect at the wing tips to accelerate turns. Lack of internal rigidity means that rams can't twist as aerodynamically as inflatos, meaning their turning and feedback is sloppier and less precise.

5: LUFF CURVE/DEPTH PROFILE
- Luff curves vary extensively. Inflatables with flat luff curves sit forward in the window whereas inflatables with deeper luff curves sit further back in the window. It is the same principle as sailing: If you want more "bottom" end with a sail, you deepen the luff curve (eg letting out the outhaul on a sailboard). If you want more "high" end, you make the luff curve shallower (eg sheeting in the outhaul on a sailboard). There is a lot of difference amongst luff curves on kites; this determines a lot of handling differences. It's a matter of trying different inflatables until you find one you like.
- The excessive drag and inertia of ram airs causes them to sit further back in the window compared to inflatables. Hence, there is less scope for ram designers to modify the luff curve.
- Because of the semi-rigid structure inherent to inflatables the luff curve is much easier to standardise and maintain. Semi rigidity actually enables variables like the luff curve to be really optimised. Ram airs don't have this capacity.

6: RELAUNCH
- Ram lovers make a big issue of this. It isn't a big issue. Beginners find relaunching inflatables easy after a few sesssions. Yes, some rams can reverse launch, but so what... a lot of inflatables can reverse launch. Rams can launch directly downwind in the water, but so what... so can a lot of inflatables. Anyway, downwind launches are dangerous for beginners because of the risk of being flung or carted downwind. For intermediates and above, relaunching should not even be considered in the equation because a) they won't be dropping the kite much anyway and b) Relaunching inflatables is EASY. Commonly, ram airs will not relaunch properly because of twisting, bridle tangles, or waterlogging. These aren't such big problems with inflatables.

7: SAFETY
Inflatables are safer than ram airs because:
a) Downwind launches are bloody SCARY and can be dangerous. Eg viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2359529 . Because only a small bunch of slightly odd people use ram airs, there is confusion about their correct use, leading to potentially dangerous situations eg viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2360971
b) Because they lack internal rigidity, rams deform, twist, wineglass, and jellfish in the middle of the power zone etc when they are downwind of obstacles, in rotors, and in VERY gusty conditions. This is VERY dangerous. Some of the most frightening kitemares witnessed have involved ram users in gusty conditions - their kites have been virtually uncontrollable and have endangered both the rider and other beach users.
c) Surf conditions
-- While it is always a gamble if your kite gets caught by a wave, at least you've got a fighting chance if it is an inflatable. If it is a ram air, it's all over.

8: BRIDLE TANGLES & FAILURES
Bridle tangles are disturbingly common with ram airs. Check this thread viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2354115&start=30
In particular, note the statement by "schmoe" that goes: "A bridle tangle on flysurfer can mean that you do not go out... For me I had many lost hours where the wind is cranking because of the bridles. I rather inflate 5 tubes and know that the setup time is exactly 10 minutes, no more no less, than have setup time that is 70% 5 minutes and 30% an hour. And now with one pump, the setup time of a tube is less, so it is not an advantage of the foil anymore."
Ram air bridle tangles can be very dangerous. A lot of riders have reported how their ram airs caught seaweed in their bridles, causing their kites to wineglass and spin out of control.

Bridle breakages occur surprisingly frequently with ram airs. They can be expensive (US $500 plus) (eg see the thread titled "Flysurfer Warrior Exploding:" phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4612 ) .

9: PRE-INFLATING
- Ram users struggle to pre-inflate their kites in a lot of situations eg cross- offshore conditions. I once witnessed a Flysurfer lover trying to launch at a point break in cross offshore conditions. He had to get a friend (inflatable rider) to grab one tip while he grabbed the other tip and they both ran up and down the narrow strip of beach, trying to pre-inflate - to no avail. He had to pack up and go home while the inflatable riders were able to do drift launches. Without pre-inflation, ram users find it very difficult to drift launch, a skill that is often required eg Promontory/headland launches.

10: RESALE
- Contrary to the propaganda of ram lovers, ram airs and inflatos have similar lifespans. The major determinant of lifespan is obsolescence. In 2-3 years, whatever you're using now won't be worth much and will be superseded.

11: REPAIRS
- Ram air repairs are generally a LOT more expensive. For example, this phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4612 required a PARACHUTE repairer to fix his kite, costing well over $1000. Bills over $1000 are common, eg viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2348790
- In the first example above, Flysurfer refused to honor the warranty, even though the kite was less than a year old.

12: COMPETITION
Ram lovers frequently make ridiculous claims about upcoming competitions that they will "dominate." They then go on to get blown out of the water. For example, they said that various kites from Flysurfer (Psycho, Silver Arrow, Warrior, Voodoo, Titan, Insert Name Here..... etc) would dominate the pro kitesurfing circuit. It has never happened. No ram riders have ever made it into the top 20 on the PKRA - ref http://www.pkra.info . Ram lovers said ram airs would dominate the Cabo Verde Wave event... They didn't. They said ram airs would dominate the "low-wind" showdown in San Diego - They didn't. The top pro riders ALL ride inflatables because of their superior aerodynamic properties. It's interesting that ALL the world records in hang-time, as well as unofficial records like Eric Eck's crazy jump, are held by inflatables. Ram airs aren't even on the same page.

13: LAND & SNOW
Check out this thread viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2355153 Not only are inflatables superior on water (because of better aerodynamic performance, jumping, stability, and safety), they are also superior on snow and land for the same reasons.

14: LIGHT WINDS
Ram airs are inferior light wind kites for the following reasons:
1) Excessive drag (bridles, lack of internal rigidity), compromising the Lift/Drag ratio
2) VERY slow turning
3) Inertia. The Speed 2 19 contains over 11kg of air in its pockets, compared to about 3kg in the largest inflatables.
4) Bridle failures and tangling
5) Wind dropouts and gear failure
--EVERYONE experiences a few gear failures (eg broken lines) and COMPLETE wind dropouts every year. You're usually safe with an inflatable. It can be used to "self-rescue" or you can swim in with the kite. If things go REALLY bad, you can just use the inflatable structure to support your weight.
--ALL ram airs become hopelessly waterlogged after 45 minutes - unlaunchable and certainly unable to support your body weight. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2346569 viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2358958&p=608890#p608890
6) 8 knot limit
-- Despite what anybody tells you, you won't really have fun on any kite (ram air OR inflatable) unless the wind is over about 8 knots. This is the starting point for BOTH ram airs and inflatables, but because of the reasons I've outlined above, inflatables are vastly superior. And this is just the starting point. You won't really be having fun until it hits about 10 knots on an inflatable OR a ram air.
- Ram lovers are prone to exaggeration and just plain misinformation about light winds, eg see the following thread: Ram airs jump 8m in 8 knots ("The future is bright, the future is foil") https://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php ... &view=next
7) Objective Testing
-- A variety of kites were tested in light wind conditions in San Diego a few years ago viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2319439&hilit=ram+a ... +san+diego . Despite the ridiculous over-hyped claims from Flysurfer reps like Ted Bautista, Flysurfer ram air kites crashed and burned. The overall consensus was that Flysurfer ram air kites are ok in light wind, but they turn VERY SLOWLY. The overall impression was that there are much better inflatables. It's interesting that a lot of the ram air guys who were excited about this showdown were remarkably SILENT afterwards, in particular, Ted Bautista, the U.S. rep for Flysurfer. His alpha-male chest-beating rants in the lead up to this showdown almost defied belief.
For an example of the LIES that ram lovers tell about their kites, checkout viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2350141&p=539227#p539227
8) Flysurfer and Light Winds
See the thread about the poor light wind properties of Flysurfer viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2349064


15: GEEKS
Amongst inflatable riders, there is a certain amount of collegiality. Inflatable riders tend to hang out together and help each other on the beach and on the water. If you fly a ram air, you'll always be a bit on the outside; regarded as a bit weird and not really part of the group. Part of this is because you will always be in a minority on the beach, part of it is because ram airs are so rare that inflatable riders are a scared/unsure of ram airs, and part of it is because, as a group, ram rides ARE a bit weird. Anyway, one of the problems with being part of a weird minority on the beach is that it can be very difficult to find people to help launch and land your kite, eg http://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topi ... C_ID=51465


Pour ce qui est du Yoda de light wind, sache que nul autre son frere et mentor Arsenal est aussi une machine en terme de performance en vent ultra leger et ce depuis bien plus longtemps. Arsenal peut facilement rider 3 a 4m plus petit que les autres tres souvent. Mais la y a des limites au light wind, et voici ces limites dans ce video qui date de 5-6 ans auquel j'ai personnellement assisté avec comme cinéaste SeanRMZ et le rider en Speed3 21m nul autre que Arsenal. Et pour bien proiuver que ca ride, y a une Ozone Zephyr qui vole en plan arriere, donc il vente au moins 7-8 noeuds !!! Et bien Arsenal qui ride un peu, ne performe pas tres fort. Il n'arrive pas a garder son près... Et si y avait un rider qui devait faire le test, c'est bien ce JEDI :oops: :cry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttxD-3VG_74


Image

Oublie la bullshit des 6 noeuds que ca ride, c'est des gros mensonges. Y a personne qui mesure le vent a 30m dans les airs et c'est las que ca compte. De plus des vents de 8-9 noeuds stables au Kwebec, ca existe pas. SI ca ride en caisson, tu attends 10 minutes et tu vas rider en boudin, that's it. Et a ce que je sache, le Yoda n'a pas de caiusson, mais une grosse turbine. La bullshit est maintenant interdite sur kiteforum
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Denis
 
Messages: 5570
Inscrit le: Sam 18 Sep 2010 02:56

Re: Cherche Kite Vent entre 12 et 15 knt 2017 5h

Messagepar astuce » Jeu 21 Sep 2017 09:24

Ahh que de bons souvenirs à mes débuts en 2011 à cet endroit!

Marshone, next time tu essai la Turbine et mon foil de bois, on va en avoir le coeur net.

Au fait, il vente la la... ;)
Kite:Core GTS4 10m-13.5m,Core Section 7m,SS Turbine 2013 17m
TT:Axis Ultra 2013 148x47
Alaia:ULW 8'x24"
Hydrofoil:6'x2'(bois), Taaroa Sword 2
Surf:RRD Maquina 2012 5'9",Firewire Flexfire 2011 6'2"
SnowBoard:Nobile NHP 2012 157cm
Avatar de l’utilisateur
astuce
 
Messages: 376
Inscrit le: Dim 14 Août 2011 18:29
Localisation: Rive-Nord

Re: Cherche Kite Vent entre 12 et 15 knt 2017 5h

Messagepar marshone » Jeu 21 Sep 2017 09:29

Denis,

pour avoir fait du caisson une seul fois sur l'eau je confirme qu'il est possible de rider avec seulement 6knt. Mon experience était avec la Pulsion 18m et ma Sector. Je ne me serais pas aventuré très loin avec cette configuration mais techniquement il est possible de le faire. Avec un Hydrofoil et un caisson la combinaison est surement redoutable, par contre il ne faut pas être un adepte des changements de direction humide (les fesses à l'eau) puisqu'une simple erreur de pilotage devrait résulter en une imminante perte de controle du kite...

Comme confucius dirait, il ne faut pas mettre le doigt entre l'arbre et l'écorce

Mais que dirait le Yoda du LW (Use The Force?)
Marshone

core GTS4 LW 15m, XR5 10m, XR5 8m
alpinefoil access 5.0v2, vr6
airush Sector 60 V1.5

Perdu: alpinefoil access 5.0, rx-v5
Avatar de l’utilisateur
marshone
 
Messages: 590
Inscrit le: Mar 26 Juil 2011 23:37
Localisation: Pas trop loin d'Oka

Re: Cherche Kite Vent entre 12 et 15 knt 2017 5h

Messagepar astuce » Jeu 21 Sep 2017 09:39

marshone a écrit:Denis,

pour avoir fait du caisson une seul fois sur l'eau je confirme qu'il est possible de rider avec seulement 6knt. Mon experience était avec la Pulsion 18m et ma Sector. Je ne me serais pas aventuré très loin avec cette configuration mais techniquement il est possible de le faire. Avec un Hydrofoil et un caisson la combinaison est surement redoutable, par contre il ne faut pas être un adepte des changements de direction humide (les fesses à l'eau) puisqu'une simple erreur de pilotage devrait résulter en une imminante perte de controle du kite...

Comme confucius dirait, il ne faut pas mettre le doigt entre l'arbre et l'écorce

Mais que dirait le Yoda du LW (Use The Force?)


Comme dit Denis, pas facile d'avoir la "vrai" vitesse exact du vent en hauteur. Mais bon, étant donné que ca ne me tente pas de fabriquer une perche avec anémomètre au bout et de me promener dans le lac. Je me base sur Windalert même si c'est pas la vrai valeur: si ca dit 5-6 noeuds c'est possible de rider mais tu ne remontes pas, 7-8 noeuds sans problème.
Kite:Core GTS4 10m-13.5m,Core Section 7m,SS Turbine 2013 17m
TT:Axis Ultra 2013 148x47
Alaia:ULW 8'x24"
Hydrofoil:6'x2'(bois), Taaroa Sword 2
Surf:RRD Maquina 2012 5'9",Firewire Flexfire 2011 6'2"
SnowBoard:Nobile NHP 2012 157cm
Avatar de l’utilisateur
astuce
 
Messages: 376
Inscrit le: Dim 14 Août 2011 18:29
Localisation: Rive-Nord

Re: Cherche Kite Vent entre 12 et 15 knt 2017 5h

Messagepar Denis » Jeu 21 Sep 2017 10:02

Mais ou est FLEX23 ?? Qu'on organise le challenge ultra light wind au plus vite et qu'on confonde les capitaines bonhommes :bounce: :bounce:
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Denis
 
Messages: 5570
Inscrit le: Sam 18 Sep 2010 02:56

Re: Cherche Kite Vent entre 12 et 15 knt 2017 5h

Messagepar Denis » Jeu 21 Sep 2017 10:03

je viens de deplacer le sujet dans FULL KITE car ca risque de devenir un topic le fun ;)
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Denis
 
Messages: 5570
Inscrit le: Sam 18 Sep 2010 02:56

Re: Cherche Kite Vent entre 12 et 15 knt 2017 5h

Messagepar xulpix » Jeu 21 Sep 2017 10:50

Moi je suis d'accord pour le challenge MAIS:
Il devrait y avoir une formule pour diviser le poids du rider par le pouce carré de la voile diviser par la surface du board... non?
Team rider KiteXpress
F-One Diablo V1 11m
Little Cloud Pélican 13m 2017 neuf ( à vendre, avec ou sans barre, faite-moi une offre!)
Flysurfer Sonic2 15m

Intérêt: Vitesse pure :)
Avatar de l’utilisateur
xulpix
 
Messages: 1062
Inscrit le: Jeu 09 Juin 2011 19:45

Suivant

Retour vers FULL KITE

Qui est en ligne ?

Utilisateur(s) parcourant actuellement ce forum : benprokite, Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot], oli 74, Sam99 et 46 invité(s)